The title keeper
Justine Carty鈥檚 career has been driven by a strong work ethic and love of learning. Mary Hallissey meets the property law guru and Law Society Council member.
鈥淚 love a good title,鈥 laughs Justine Carty. 鈥淚 really like a complex conveyance!鈥
When she reflects on her career, the Offaly-born Council member notes that her love of learning, teaching, and sharing knowledge has been a continuing theme.
As a property specialist solicitor at the Property Registration Authority, Justine works on title investigations. What is more remarkable, however, is how diverse her overall work life has been, ranging from small country practices to a top-ten firm, and now the public sector.
鈥淚 have had a diverse career so far,鈥 she agrees.
As a gay woman, Justine says she doesn鈥檛 have a dramatic or exciting 鈥榗oming-out story鈥 or, indeed, any bad experiences to share.
She firmly believes that diversity should not be a tokenistic box-ticking exercise, but a kaleidoscope through which to show the huge and wonderful variety of career and personality types that the legal profession supports.
鈥淲e are all different,鈥 she says. 鈥淲e can show the breadth of opportunity and the diversity of the profession without ticking boxes.
鈥淚鈥檝e never thought of myself as any different from anybody else. I only expected to be judged on my own personality, how I get on with my colleagues, my work ethic, and the quality of my work.
鈥淸Being gay] wasn鈥檛 something I hid, as I am comfortable in myself and in who I am, and I let people take me as they find me.鈥
Town and country
A convent-educated native of Shannonbridge, Co Offaly, Justine has a very typical and relatable rural Irish background 鈥 her late father was a farmer, while her mother ran a guesthouse.
The youngest of five, she credits her parents for instilling a great love of education and for always providing her with opportunities to learn and improve herself through extra-curricular activities, whether playing the piano or horse-riding. 鈥淚 have a great work ethic, and I definitely would attribute that to my parents, watching them juggle the farm, B&B, and five children.鈥
Justine studied law at the University of Limerick but believes that her love of law really ignited when she began her training contract in Castleblayney, Co Monaghan, in Mallon鈥檚 Solicitors, a small general practice.
鈥淥nce I started working, everything just clicked, between the theoretical side of law and the practical side. That鈥檚 when I really started to love the law, and my job,鈥 says Justine.
She qualified during the 2008 recession, which crystallised her sense of privilege at being kept on after her traineeship, as she watched colleagues and friends losing their jobs and emigrating.
Attention to detail
She loved her time in Monaghan and credits her training solicitor, Seamus Mallon, with giving her advice and guidance throughout her traineeship and career.
鈥淪eamus acted as a mentor to me, even though it wasn鈥檛 a formal mentoring relationship. I don鈥檛 think he was aware that he was a mentor to me!
鈥淪olicitor Sinead O鈥橞rien in the practice put a great emphasis on the technical side of the law and attention to detail. I remember her always spending the time to teach and explain. Only when I matured myself, I thought wasn鈥檛 she great to take the time out of her day to make sure that I received a thorough training. I was very fortunate to get a very practical hands-on training,鈥 she recalls.
She spent ten years in Monaghan, eventually moving to work at the Office of the State Solicitor, Barry Healy, as her reputation for hard work grew.
It was during this time that she met her partner of ten years. They registered their civil partnership in June 2012, with both of their families present to enjoy the day.
A move to Dublin in 2015 made practical sense, given that Justine鈥檚 partner was working in Dublin.
鈥淗ad I not met my partner Davina, I probably would have gone on to open my own practice in Monaghan. I鈥檇 been ten years there, and I had a reputation built up. Monaghan has everything you鈥檇 need from a town 鈥 good restaurants, good pubs, gyms, a cinema. Everyone was just so friendly and very welcoming.鈥
Change of heart
鈥淗and on heart, I鈥檝e never received any different treatment. It never was an issue. We are lucky that Irish society, in general, has progressed so much in the last number of years, and that many firms and organisation have embraced the idea of diversity and inclusion.鈥
She says that she did initially avoid questions about her personal life. A chance meeting with her boss one weekend, while with her then girlfriend, prompted a change of heart.
鈥淥n the Monday morning, I went straight into Seamus and said that I had something to tell him 鈥 that the girl he saw me with at the weekend was actually my girlfriend. Seamus just smiled at me, and said that he鈥檇 figured that one out for himself, asked me all about her, said very good, then moved on to ask about the files for court.
鈥淭hat was literally the end of it. It was a relief to me because it was out there. A big effort was made to always invite me and my girlfriend to all social events. Looking back, it was an inclusive workplace and community without having any formal policies in place.鈥
Mover and shaker
Good time-management really stood to her for her next move 鈥 to corporate firms in Dublin 鈥 first Gartlan Furey and then ByrneWallace.
鈥淎t ByrneWallace, the property department was led by a strong leadership team in the form of Michael Walsh and Alison O鈥橲ullivan. I enjoyed the challenge of being a transaction property lawyer.
鈥淭he firm has an inclusive culture where diversity, as well as integrity and excellence, are embraced. I think that was one of the reasons why I loved working there.鈥
She believes that coming from a country practice to Dublin gave her a more well-rounded legal experience.
The principles of conveyancing are the same, no matter where you are, she notes. 鈥淚n the country, it鈥檚 called a list of closing documents; in Dublin, it鈥檚 鈥榗ompletion deliverables鈥!鈥 she laughs.
Council calls
In 2013, she got a call from Law Society Council member James MacGuill, who asked her whether she would consider standing for election. 鈥淚 didn鈥檛 see it as seeking out a leadership role in the Law Society 鈥 it just happened naturally, as I had been so active in the Monaghan Bar Association.鈥
Justine was duly elected, though admits now that she was na茂ve as to the procedural formalities involved compared with running a local bar association. 鈥淚 probably prefer the work on committees, which are more practical and hands on,鈥 she says. 鈥淚 enjoy a good project.鈥
This year, Justine is chair of the Guidance and Ethics Committee, which has been tasked with updating the guide to good professional conduct (last updated in 2013), which is a fundamental part of solicitor education and practice.
She urges solicitors of all backgrounds to get involved in the profession鈥檚 leadership, with their local bar association as an obvious starting point. She is also anxious to dispel any perception that the Council is male-dominated or in any way non-inclusive: 鈥淓verybody鈥檚 opinion is valued, is heard, and is listened to on Council, and people from diverse backgrounds are genuinely welcome in the decision-making space.
"Everyone contributes in their own way and each contribution is valued. You don鈥檛 have to bark the loudest to make a valued contribution to the Law Society,鈥 she notes.
鈥淭he Law Society is fortunate to have a macro view of the profession and the structures that exist within it,鈥 says Justine. 鈥淚t鈥檚 great to see that it has embraced the concept of diversity 鈥 diversity of opinion is critical for success. I don鈥檛 think any captain would field a team where everyone had just one skill or strength. It鈥檚 the same for the Law Society, so I encourage those from a country practice to get involved.鈥
She also encourages all firms to sign the Law Society鈥檚 diversity and inclusion charter, to show their commitment to supporting those qualities in their firm.
The time commitment is real, however, for either Council or committee work.
鈥淲e do need to make it easier for people to get involved in leadership roles in the Law Society, as we are all time poor. The use of technology can enable a more efficient way of working and attending meetings, which would allow for a more geographically diverse Council and committees.鈥
Confidence builder
Several years on, Justine reflects that being 鈥榦ut鈥 at work meant, for her, getting on with things with confidence. 鈥淵ou can build better relationships because you are no longer concentrating on watching where a conversation is going.
鈥淐oming out can be exhausting for some people, particularly at work, because you might not want to share your personal life in your work environment,鈥 Justine reflects. 鈥淚 think that there are several stages of coming out. The first is personal acceptance, that you are happy with who you are. For me, that was in college in Limerick, in my early 20s, but there was no dramatic announcement.
鈥淎fter that, there is social acceptance, that you are actually happy being who you are socially, and that you鈥檙e not hiding that part of your life from your family or friends.
鈥淭he third part is professional acceptance, but not everyone chooses to come out at work or chooses to share personal information about their home life, regardless of whether they are gay or not, or from a minority group or not. You have to respect those people as well, who choose not to share their personal life for whatever reason.
鈥淗owever, I do believe that if work environments are open and inclusive, people will know themselves that it鈥檚 not an issue if they choose to come out and share their personal life at work.鈥
Holding the course
Lockdown prompted Justine to begin a master鈥檚 in education and training in DCU. 鈥淚t鈥檚 one side of my job that I really enjoy, giving Law Society tutorials and teaching and training. So I thought this year was perfect timing to undertake a course.鈥
She reflects that, in her college experience, case law didn鈥檛 seem very relevant 鈥 but good teaching in the practical, technical side of the law made all the difference.
鈥淚鈥檝e never left a Law Society Council or committee meeting without learning something, be it positive or negative. That鈥檚 one of the things I really like about it,鈥 she reflects. 鈥淚 love the collegiality, on the Guidance and Ethics, and on the In-House and Public Sector Committees.
鈥淚t鈥檚 a great way of meeting new colleagues 鈥 and if you ever need to pick up the phone to somebody, you have a network of people to call on. I like that colleagues know that I sit on committees and the Council, and that they can reach out for guidance or a steer in the right direction if needed.鈥
Justine recognises that it can be hard to be a trailblazer for diversity 鈥 for example, as the first woman on a board or the only gay person in a group. 鈥淲hat we learn can make the path easier for the next person. This is why I felt it was important for me to do this interview, even though I have no dramatic stories to tell.
鈥淚 think I have a personal responsibility, that if there is somebody coming up the ranks, who might like to get involved, to reassure people that everybody鈥檚 voice and contribution is valued in the Law Society, be it on Council or on the committees.鈥
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